Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast Episode 53: Shaun Thompson

Former pro surfer Shaun Thompson sounds off on honing his personal style.

Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior Podcast With Mike Sarraille is a podcast that inspires individuals to live more fulfilling lives by having conversations with disrupters and high performers from all walks of life. In episode 53, we spoke to Shaun Tomson, former world champion surfer and bestselling author. A native of South Africa, Tomson spent 14 years touring the world as a professional athlete, appearing in more than 40 surfing videos, and starring in the movie In God’s Hands.

Listen to the full episode above (scroll down for the transcript) and see more from this series below.

This interview has not been edited for length or clarity.

————————————————————————-

Michael Sarraille 00:00

I’m joined by a legend Shaun Thompson. For those that are not with it, Shaun is probably one of the most 10 influential surfers of all time. I’m sure that ranking will move up. But this guy’s done it all from winning, winning the the world championship to best selling books to a phenomenal leadership speaker on life. He’s spoken to two companies, two groups. And the one I love he’s an activist. The you’re the first professional surfer to be on the board of directors for Surfrider Foundation. Is that right?

Shaun Tomson 00:48

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was actually the first first price if I remember the first one. I think I was the first member in fact.

Michael Sarraille 00:56

You know, maybe it was my time in, in California when I was growing up. But that was I mean, the Surfrider Foundation I remember given to that as a kid. You know, growing up in Santa Cruz, it seems like it’s I don’t want to say it’s lost steam is Surfrider, still as big as it is.

Shaun Tomson 01:11

Yeah, it’s still really it’s still really big. Actually, I was so honored. They gave me an award called the WaveMaker award a few months back for my for my contribution. But you know, one of the things that I think is amazing about Sif, Radha, and for anyone that’s listening, is they have a really simple mission. And it’s like a one line mission statement to preserve and protect the world’s waves, oceans and beaches. And, you know, that mission has resonated with millions and millions of people across the world. And I think for anyone that’s in business or thinking about getting in business, it’s good to have a simple mission that you can put on a t shirt. Like one line.

Michael Sarraille 01:48

Yeah, dude, I couldn’t agree with you more. You know, hey, I go with what I know, SEO for most of my career, and they wrote this beautiful ethos or code, whatever you want to call it. It reads beautifully. But it’s like, five paragraphs and nobody can memorize it. When things are simple, man, they resonate. But Shawn, I do want to go back because you have an interesting story. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s South Africans that are our professional surfers. Definitely still today. But, you know, you grew up surfing in South Africa, of course, your South African native. But then you had to step into why I believe when was your first trip to Hawaii?

Shaun Tomson 02:30

If so, my first trip to Hawaii was 1969. It was actually a Bar Mitzvah prison. My dad took me over there. My dad had loved her way his entire life. He actually got exposed to her way when he was about 23 years old. He had a very, he was very badly attacked by shock in South Africa, nearly killed him. He was a champion. So maybe he was maybe going to win an Olympic gold shock destroyed his career. And he he went to San Francisco to your old hometown, for hand surgery to the leading hand surgeon in the world. And then they sent him off to Hawaii to recuperate. And he met the Kahanamoku family, this legendary swimming family when he was staying on the beach at this hotel called the Royal Hawaiian. And he just fell in love with Hawaii and what Hawaii represented. And he passed the love of surfing and the love of Hawaii onto me. And then I went there at a very young age and I had pictures of Hawaii all over my bedroom. And you know, my dream was one day to try to be one of the best surfers in the world. And the way to do it was to go to Hawaii and ride what within the biggest waves in the world. And it all happened on the north shore in Hawaii.

Michael Sarraille 03:34

And he still was it like to step from the surf of South Africa to Hawaii? I mean, did you have to elevate your game?

Shaun Tomson 03:44

Absolutely. elevate your game. It’s like going from driving around in bumper cars to like f1 You know the difference in the speed the power. Also, you know, well in South Africa, like everyone knew me in, in a way I was like the bottom of the food chain. So you know, I had to like get respect from the locals and I had to learn how to ride these big terrifying waves, you know, waves that had pictures on my wall of waves that you’ve paddle out and you’d see someone that’s just been savaged on the coral reef. So there’s a lot of you know, there was a lot of fear and having to overcome that fear but, but at least had that, that passion and that drive to, to paddle out. And obviously, you know, winning was important to have that desire to win but I always wanted every wave to represent the best that I could serve it I had that. I had that mindset even from a young age, every wave, I sifted as hard as I could in a good way you know, not not in a purely athletic way but athletic combined with spirituality because surfers get very connected to the environment and you know you’re sitting out there you Waiting for wave and you chilling in these dogs, like even yesterday I was in the water is dolphins and seagulls and seals, it’s, you know, you really feel that you part of the broader universe. So yes, there’s the hardcore athleticism and the aggression and the power. But also there’s the softer side, the spiritual side, it’s nice to have that blend.

Michael Sarraille 05:20

Without a doubt, man you do, especially when you hit a dusk or dawn, those on the waves of theirs. Those are the most scenic times. And it’s just peaceful. You talked about earning the respect of the locals. I know that can be a pretty cutthroat environment was that was that a major obstacle to overcome or was welcomed pretty quick?

Shaun Tomson 05:43

You know, it was it was it was it was scary because there was a perception for a couple of years there that by coming over there and wanting to change it from a lifestyle into a sport to professionalize it, and kind of winning, winning all the comps. That in some ways that the Aussies which will match louder than the South Africans, you know, and we’re really sort of talking about their achievements like the beautiful Aziz do. And I love the Aussies, more than any other nation in the world. So it did create some antagonism and some resentment and there was beefs. And I was he’s, you know, got got punched out and had to kind of apologize. And then the following year, like, I sort of escaped it. Because I thought in my mind, I was such a good bloke. But the following year, I was interviewed in a magazine you remember Penthouse magazine. It was like a super racy like

Michael Sarraille 06:39

that. I don’t know no clue what you’re talking about. I

Shaun Tomson 06:43

said, the dude course, the course. In the magazine, and he mentioned, this group are real tough guys. They called the black shorts. And they had a perception that I’d written the article. And then I’d written about the kind of nefarious activities, so I got beefed. And then I had so many death threats I had to go in. I had to drive out to tropic lightning, which is in Hawaii, where it’s a it’s a vase, and I had to go into the local gun shop. And I remember going up to the guns to him and said, Hey, these guys, are they normally dudes, man, they want to kill me. I said, I need some protection. And I’m a tourist. I’m a tourist. I’m like 23 years old, a tourist. And he shows me the wall, where all the weapons are, you know, ar 15 or the M 16. look alikes. And then the big you know, 44 Magnum, three, five sevens. He said, But this is not for you. This is what you need. And he brings out a Remington pump action. And he says you can hold off an army with his buddy. Huge big shells, they look like rocket powered grenades. And I carry that around with me for a while until we had a big peace treaty. And we had a big meeting and 80 of the idea that this service in Hawaii came to support me and it was a misunderstanding and it was all resolved. And and then we all went on our peaceful way. But the early, early days in surfing, were certainly rough and ragged, and, you know, we had to get some slaps and punches. But that’s the way it was, you know, we copped it. We never left the island, we stood up for ourselves. And we explained that, to us, the Hawaiian surfers were the gods. And that Hawaii was the center of surfing and always would be in there was never any disrespect. Intentionally or unintentionally, but we but we understood you know, we understood that. And Hawaii has had a tough time it’s been colonized, it was illegally annexed by the United States. You know, you got to put yourself in the shoes of the Hawaiians and at that time, there was a whole was sort of the start of the rebirth of Hawaii and they called it the Renaissance. And it was wonderful to be a part of it but we got some legs

Michael Sarraille 09:00

the death threats that’s that’s insane. Did it seems a little unnecessary, but I guess it’s their home turf, and they felt slighted.

Shaun Tomson 09:09

Well, these these were exception the they were tough guys. They’re very, very tough guys. And, you know, it was very scary to get on the wrong side of them. But luckily it was all resolved. And And now, you know, now spot a history. We can laugh about it.

Michael Sarraille 09:26

Do they continue part of the Hawaiian surf history? Now?

Shaun Tomson 09:30

Yeah, you know, Hawaiian surfing history. And you know, I think that when we helped develop surfing, the Aussies and the South Africans and some of the young Hawaiian pros, it was good for everyone in surfing, you know, there was no one you know, young guys in Hawaii and all over the world. Australia, California, making a great living from being pro surfers and going surfing. They just had this incredible event in Hawaii called the Adi cow Invitational, which was in memory of one of the greatest same time, a guy called Adi cat and in fact, Adi cow came to South Africa to compete. Now when I grew up in South Africa, I was 16. I think when he came to South Africa was a segregated society. It was called the apartheid regime. Yes, were segregated and he came there. He was invited out there because he was one of the greatest surfers in the world. And he was denied entry at a hotel called the Malibu Hotel. How about that the Malibu hotel, and they denied entry, the manager to one of the greatest surfers in the world said, my dad, and I picked him up and he came and stayed with us. And we introduced him to this wonderful Australian family, the Holmes family. And, you know, he really, I think, fell in love, and never forgot the Aloha that that that some people in South Africa gave to him and the Australians gave to him. So Eddie was a peacekeeper, and a peacemaker in these conflicts that that we had, and unfortunately, we lost him in 1978. He was on a boat that was recreating a voyage between Hawaii and Tahiti. It was like an ancient craft called the Hokulea. And it started sinking. And in the middle of the night, he jumped on his red board and he pedaled out into the dark to look for help and found him and they never found his board. So it’s a tragic story, but a story of courage.

Michael Sarraille 11:22

That’s, that’s a that’s a great story that he was a huge, he was denied, but you said he fell in love with South Africa from a surf aspect. Some

Shaun Tomson 11:30

South South Africans, you know, obviously had a very bad experience there. But But he, you know, we reached out a hand to him and you know, we we were we were also traumatized by that experience. And in many ways, it sort of opened my eyes to sort of the injustice. That was a daily occurrence for the black community in South Africa. But he was a great guy, he was a cool, dude.

Michael Sarraille 11:56

So I know you, you are definitely known for creating a style of surf again, with the way you’d punch in and out of the two. But how much did you get into the Big Sur Friday? Was that a passion of yours? Or? Yeah, we were focused on the competitions.

Shaun Tomson 12:11

We were focused on, on on being the best at any size, you know, whether it was 25 feet, or whether it was was two feet in Hawaii, you know, there was no, there was no, all these big waves and Tahiti hadn’t been discovered these big, big waves in California, like Mavericks hadn’t been discovered Naza Ray hadn’t been discovered in Portugal, it was all about the North Shore. So all of us young guys, you know, we wanted to be the best no matter what the size, and no matter what competition was held, we’d go for it. So we were young and agri. But you know, we weren’t like, I wouldn’t say that we were committed big wave specialists. And that that’s all we did. Big wave was just a part of it. It was just like, there’s no difference between a 25 foot wave and a an eight foot wave. You know, we’d try to hit it as hard as you could, but we didn’t do one to the exclusion of the other was wasn’t like I was just going to focus on small waves are we just going to focus on big waves, we focus on everything and I try to be really versatile. I try to see if anything, and I tried to see if anything as as as good as I could. But I really liked the performance walls, you know, when Yeah, like there’s a place called sensitive beach when it was about 12 to 15 feet, he had a big wall. Waimea Bay was the biggest wave in the world at the time was like a huge drop, sort of just like a straight line drop. But since it was all about performance, big bottom turns big cars to Brad’s said it was it was a pretty technical wave. And that was more of I think, a true test of one skill set as opposed to just the courage the courage SP Mayer was like, five the courage and pedal over the years that pipeline to you know, pipeline is perhaps I would say the most dangerous wave in the world even today, even with all these other waves that have been discovered more people have died there than anywhere else. And that’s really the true test of a of a man or a woman you need paddle over that edge. And you look down at that black coral of death. I tell you what, that defines you.

Michael Sarraille 14:07

Did you love it?

Shaun Tomson 14:09

I loved it. He loved I won my first I think I became the youngest guy to win the Parkland Master’s. And it was a big thrill for me because my father was on the beach with me, you know, he and he he never won the gold medal because of the shark attack but to see his son and I was sort of pretty much an unknown guy then when it was like it was like obviously was a dream come true for me. But in some ways it might have it was like a dream come true for my dad. So that was that was pretty cool. But that that wave today, you ask any SURFER Like what’s the true test? What context would you like to win more than any other and they’ll say, you know, the path on masters which is going on right now actually, Kelly Slater, who’s 50 years old is competing, which is amazing. And last year he wanted and you know, he could become I mean he’s an icon and Amazing sofabed he could even become a great by winning it this year again, yes.

Michael Sarraille 15:03

In you’ve been a bit of a mentor to Kelly along the way.

Shaun Tomson 15:09

I think perhaps in some ways in my approach and in my philosophy, I think, you know, for all the all the acclaim that Kelly has had he, he still has he still humble, he’s still engaging. He still likes to be around people he likes to, to give back. And also I think he’s, he’s very thoughtful and multi dimensional. It’s not just about surfing, you know, I thought that was really important. I went back, you know, in back to university, I was studying at university when I was on the tour, I created my first company when I was 22 years old, trying to get involved in environmental movements. You know, I felt that when you do a number of things, it makes your single passion even stronger, and you’re even better at it. So he’s certainly done some amazing stuff outside of just surfing and he’s created this amazing wave machine, and he’s done some really, really cool things.

Michael Sarraille 16:07

I know we’ve got one here in Austin, but in a lot of ways, I know Kelly was the face of our generation. I mean, absolutely. I’m sure you love the air. You’re humble. You don’t like yeah, accolade. But, you know, it said with his rugged good looks, his eloquence and undeniable athleticism. Shawn Thompson very much became the face of surfing in the 70s 80s. Pre Kelly Slater. What you do, as you look back, man, on, on your contributions to the sport, what really comes to mind first?

Shaun Tomson 16:45

You know, maybe a couple of things, I think I developed a whole new approach to writing inside the tube, which is the best part of surfing, you ask any server like what’s the best moment it’s writing inside the tube? And so that spinning tunnel of water? When you think you can, I used to think that I could actually curve that wall to my will, you know, when you’re really focused in that state of flow. And you operating on instinct actually called My first apparel company instinct. Because, yes, you know, that was sort of essence of the of the tube, that expense, I think, you know, creating new lines running the tube, threading new lines, a pipeline as well, and, and then I think I bought to a higher level of professionalism, to surfing and helped and helped that it thrive and prosper and give back. And then I think my environmental consciousness is, you know, I think that was a contribution. And, and I think a lot of surfers went well, you know, we need to be more environmentally conscious, we need to get back, we need to, you know, we need to get back to the ocean. And then, you know, the mentoring, which I’ve loved throughout my career, I sponsored two Australians to wildtype was a guy called Tom Carroll to two world titles guy called Mark and Lynch to one and, you know, I like to think that, that helped them and had an impact on their career, and, in more recent times, managed to help hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of people. So it’s a wonderful extension of, you know, what I did when I was a young, a young guy, and sort of doing it on a different and bigger scale. You know, I went back to, I gotta, I gotta tell you this, I went back to grad school at university a number of years ago, back, I think I was the oldest dude there. And I wanted to study, influence and inspiration. So that’s what leadership is the art and science of leadership. And, you know, when I thought back to my athletic career, and I look at, what is an athlete really do, what that what does an athlete really do these two fundamental responsibilities. One is to win. And the other one that is even more important is to inspire. And that’s what athletes do. And it’s it’s wonderful to have gone and studied this concept of influence and inspiration in depth and see the incredible power that athletes have, not just inspire and influence but to transform to transform people, through the obviously through the experts on the field, but also the experts of the field.

Michael Sarraille 19:22

That is probably the best definition I’ve ever heard. You know, Shawn, the one thing we have in common, but I assure you, you are much better than I is, you know, I have a leadership development company. And I speak to companies as well. But, you know, I often say I use the football analogy. It doesn’t matter how inspiring a coach is or what type of great culture he may build. If he’s not putting wins on the board, he’s not going to be in that seat very long. So the winning part has I mean, everyone wants to be a part of a winning culture. And so you can’t have one with the without the other but the mentorship piece, you know, you you took the sport to a level and then You know, you hear it with same with athletes in any any profession 60s 70s 80s 90s You know, they took the sport to another level and now you watch this generation taking it further. Does that hurt your ego whatsoever? Or do you feel like nope, I’ve done my job. We’ve mentored them. And now they’re taking the sport to a level we I love that couldn’t comprehend.

Shaun Tomson 20:17

You know, I love the development. And I take great pride in saying that I put a little brick on the wall of circumciser for me. You know, my records were broken many years ago, and I go, that’s just part of the that’s part of the development of the sport, you know, you have to an engineer, sometimes an athlete will find the app and, and my door’s always open to athletes, and my advice is always it’s, it’s caring, and it’s free. I always said athletes, you’ve got a problem for me, I haven’t. I mean, this young Hawaiian athlete a few years back, great kid, his name was Zeke law, he looks like a warrior. He couldn’t get out of 25th place could not get out of 25th place. So I contacted him. And I said, Hey, Zeke, you know, I’m Shawn Thompson, he I am stick to connect with me, I said, Listen, I’ve got a super cool method that I use with hundreds of 1000s of people. And I’d love you to try it. And you know, maybe it can give you a little breakthrough. Because athletics, it’s about millimeters, you know what I mean? The difference between success and failure is a millimeter. And both in your physical makeup and also your mental makeup. And it just one little millimeter can mean the difference between success and failure. So so this is, this is the thing, this is the way of the warrior. So it’s cool that, you know, you’ve got your everyday warrior. And I said, I just want to read and this is the way of the warrior. The code, this is your values. This is your power, this is your passion. This is your purpose, write 12 lines, every line beginning with I will write it in 15 minutes. And commit to this, I will What I will, and he writes these 12 lines, he sends it to me, I promise you, the next week, he flies to South Africa. So I want a big event in South Africa, when I was 17 years old, I won it six times in a row was called the Gunston 500. It’s still going, he gets a third, like you say goes from 25th to third. And a month later gets a first in a big event in Portugal and qualifies for the professional tour at the end of that year. So I say to people that this code process that is to be shared in the world, it’s open source code. It might help you, it might not help you. But what’s the risk? The risk is 15 minutes, pick up a pen, write 12 lines, every line begins with how well and I think over a million a million people have done this coprocessor due to the biggest companies in the world. I do it with. I did it with a group of soldiers and Israel PTSD survivors. I’ve done it with prisoners, inmates. I’ve done it with rehab clinics, schools, universities and massive corporations, everyone writes a code baby 12 lines, every line beginning with our well and you know, you know, you exhale, you know how important it is to have that foundation of values, to have the foundation of commitment to have at your heart purpose. What am I going to do? What am I about? What’s my life? What’s the meaning of my life? I will have faith. I will be better today than I was whatever people write amazing stuff. You cannot believe what they wrote back. Sometimes I cry when I read what they write. Yeah. And they stand up. You know what they do? When I do these events, people stand up. And they read their code out loud and proud. They’re like a warrior. They read it and half of the audience will start crying when they hear what the team members have written. It is sir. It is so wonderful. Think I’ve got one of the best jobs in the world right now.

Michael Sarraille 24:00

We so you know you have a story to tell in a very unique story, a world class story. And I heard it recently. I can’t I can’t remember the source. They said it is a shame to not share your story, which is to say to share all the knowledge you’ve accumulated. And usually a lot of that knowledge comes from failure trials and tribulations. And if you don’t pass that to the next generation, you’re actually doing a disservice to humanity. Shawn, this isn’t until for everyone listening. Shawn wrote a best seller. And this is what I love. He was a team. That number one Amazon team best seller called the code the power of AI will Shawn This is why I love it because for my buddies I write with my buddies. I I’m very team oriented. Everything I’ve done is team oriented. We just went and jumped the seven continents. skydive in six days. No one’s ever done this. They said it couldn’t be done. So you know found none of my buddies, but we talk about how often companies have like their corporate values on the wall. And I often when I speak to companies, I’m like, I haven’t spoke because I’ve been gone for 45 days on this expedition, but honor, integrity, communication in service. And I asked people, I’m like, What company had those values up on the wall, and some people will get it right away, I said, Hey, one of their major headquarters was in Houston. And they’ll finally yell out and run. And I’m like, Yeah, you know, what, guys? Every corporation has values on the wall. But how many companies do you see that actually have a code? Like, if you didn’t know it, Johnson and Johnson is one of the few companies that if you walk into their headquarters, it’s actually etched on the wall. Stone. But so you know what, go ahead.

Shaun Tomson 25:48

What you say is amazing, you know, I, when I went back and went back to grad school and studied leadership, I actually got a hold of the Enron book on values, it was about half an inch thick. All this shit was inside this book. So So you know, say, you know, what I do with, with, with companies, and and it’s super cool. So now. So you’ve got a big crew, and everyone reads the code, and I say to people, okay, I want one line, from your code, that is the most resonant line to you. And send it to me, they text it to me, and it comes up, comes up on my PowerPoint, and you know, whatever that line might be, like, I will live a life of integrity, I will have faith, I will be a mentor. But it’s about power. And it’s about commitment. And it’s about I will and when you state that in front of people, you know, you have that, you know you in the military, you have that accountability here, and then what to do afterwards, then us, I have an artist who puts it together, and he makes a big poster. And there’s a one line from each team member. And that goes whether it’s to company HQ, or goes to the sales office. So now, like you say, when you walk into a company, and you see on integrity, words, let me tell you, words don’t have the power. But when you put our will in front of them. It creates urgency, it creates action, and it creates commitment. And you know what it is? It’s a bloody promise, you’ve made a promise, and you know, you’ve made the promise to to yourself, so you better uphold it, otherwise, you’ll be a BLOODY WANKER. So everyone, you know, when you see these commitments, and I go into the companies, and I see them up on the walls, and I go, that’s pretty cool. You know what I mean? That you’re not going to check them out every day, but maybe the one day when you down, and things are going sideways, and you look there, and you see, you see one of your words from your code, like I will always pedal back out or, or, you know, whatever it whatever it might be, it can give you that little extra millimeter.

Michael Sarraille 27:58

So, you know, again, we talked about Enron, those are espoused values, what we aspire to be, but I love this concept of a code. There’s a book called The code of a warrior by a professor at the Naval Academy, and I remember reading it as a young Marine before he became a seal. And I don’t know why it resonated with me in my 40s, as much as it did in my 20s. But, you know, in a lot of ways, I didn’t realize I was living by a code, I couldn’t articulate it. But have you ever I’ve got to ask you Have you ever heard the prayer have to come so I think it’s one of the best codes.

Shaun Tomson 28:30

No, I don’t think maybe I have so I

Michael Sarraille 28:33

it’s something I used to say with my son before he went to bed. And it’s it’s been a little while but but but bear with me. Live your life so that the fear of death may never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion, respect others and their views and demand that they respect yours. Love Your Life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. when your time comes to die be not like those whose hearts are filled with a fear of death. So they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Singer death song in die like a hero going home. I probably missed that

Shaun Tomson 29:11

amazing. Well done there, Mike. That is awesome.

Michael Sarraille 29:15

It would be there was a time where my son could say it with being of course at the age of five and he had helped him but he knew it pretty pretty. routinely. He doesn’t know now because we stopped but when you have something like that you live your life a little bit differently. It also goes to the to habits of repeating those codes until it becomes instinctual. It’s something it’s etched into your mind. Why have you chosen and I know you’re still still active in the sport. You know, you’ve written these books on leadership. Is this part of your legacy you’re leaving behind man? Is it is this is this the next chapter of your life is to impact as many lives through through your leadership. training, you didn’t surfing,

Shaun Tomson 30:02

without a doubt. I mean, I bet a tragedy led me to this, I lost my beautiful 15 and a half year old son to a poor choice. In 2006, he played a dangerous game that he heard about at school called the choking game, but it was terrible. And I just went down a different path after that. And I could see that, you know, young people, not just young people, people are people just make bad decisions all the time. And if there’s a way that I in my own way can help people make a better decision, and live a better life by using my method, which I’ve found, really helps people discover hope and activate purpose, it gives me so much love back in so much satisfaction and, and makes you know, what happened to my beautiful son. Much more. I think I speak about my son a lot when I when I when I do my presentations, and how important it is to, if you have a loss and you suffer is you’ve got to find your new purpose, you got to find a renewed purpose. And for me, my renewed purpose was, well, maybe I’ll go out and speak to people and give them two things. I give them a perspective and tell them about my experiences through some stories. And then I show them how to activate the code method. And they share it and they do it together and just create this wave of optimism, optimism and hope. And when I, when I do my presentations, it’s really interesting because they’re quite interactive. And even if I’m doing a live stream, and it’s to five or 6000 people, I ask people right at the end, after they’ve written their codes and shared them. So what are you going to take home with you send me one word, send me one word that you’re going to take home with you What do you think that word is mine.

Michael Sarraille 32:07

You inspire

Shaun Tomson 32:10

that that’s a common word. But the most common word is hope, which is very related to inspire. And, you know, if that’s my mission in life now, and that’s the ultimate objective. It’s a good mission. It’s a good path to help people find out. That’s cool.

Michael Sarraille 32:31

Shawn, I wasn’t gonna bring up Matthew. And in a lot of people just don’t like to talk about loss. It requires what I consider to be the most masculine trait and that’s vulnerability. And again, you know, you’re either the most the most lethal warriors I knew I talked about them and how vulnerable they were not victims, but they allowed themselves to be vulnerable. You said you started to go down a bad path after Matthew.

Shaun Tomson 33:00

Well, you know, I was just despair despondency. No direction. It was very luck, for instance, you know, I love surfing so much. And I was so stoked. And after loss, Matthew, my stoke had gone out, you know, the fire. My Fire gone out. So it was, it was tough. Time. And then and then how about this, I had this friend who kept finding me I made sure I want to take you surfing, you want to go surfing again, you’ve got to go surfing again. After a couple of months. It takes me surfing, he said, Shawn, I’m gonna take you to a place you’ve never surfed before. So we walked down. And I’m back in the homeland of South Africa, because my son was at my old private school and they will, they will uniforms and they will school tires. And he played this game called the choking game with the school tire. I mean, all the kids were playing it as dreadful. I don’t remember. So it takes me to this place. And we walked down the steps and it’s beautiful. That sun is just starting to rise and it’s on the east coast. So the sun’s like, boiling up through the ocean. It’s beautiful since a beautiful thing to see. And I just felt this sort of sense of like a new day like renewal and dived into the water with my board, and a paddled out and I was crying, you know. And then the waves are just washing into me as I was paddling out. They were just like washing my tears away. It was an amazing sensation to be crying and then the waves of washing them away. It’s like the sea is helping me. And then I paddled out. And I could feel Matthew was with me, man. Yeah. And then I swung round and a quarter wave. And I read it. And I started feeling bad and pedaled back out and I read another wave. And then I pedaled up to my mate. And I said, Hey, What’s the name of this wave? Because you know, every sipping break has a name. She said, It’s called Sunrise. Sunrise. How about that? I couldn’t believe it, I went, Wow. This is something at work here, deep faith and connectivity to Matthew connectivity to nature and connectivity back to my surfing and was like, my stick was reluctant. And then I went down a path, I had a book at the printer, my first book and, and I told him to keep it on hold, I didn’t want to publish it. And then a new now I’ve got to publish this book, because this books in memory of Matthew and the book was called surface code. And it was about the first 12 lines I had written and, and it turned into this, this book turned into this way to honor my beautiful son’s life and to help me find a new path. And that’s what I did. And that’s what I’ve been doing. Ever since you know, I’ve been pushing forward and and doing what has has become a passion for me. I love to speak to people and share my perspective and share my code.

Michael Sarraille 36:16

What is it about nature? Because see, you know, I know you come from a Judaism, Jewish background, you know, I came from a very devoutly Roman Catholic family. But in the wake of war and losing brothers, I didn’t find renewal through religion. And you’ve often heard the phrase nature’s next to to godliness. A trip to Mount Everest, for me, just was it was time to put down my grief. The survivor’s guilt for my brothers in actually honor their life by living to to do more to be more. What is it about nature, in your opinion, you talk about spirituality, and I believe in three pillars, you know, the physical, the mental and the spiritual. What is it about nature? That is so spiritual? to I think for some, it’s, yeah, I’m a mountain man. It’s, it’s,

Shaun Tomson 37:11

you know. For me, it’s that feeling of humility, that feeling of disconnection and connection. So like yesterday, I go surfing, walk down the beach. And there’s a person in the water, one person and me and I walk down the beach. And I jump into the woods. And as I jump into the water is a moment that every surfer experiences that you sort of weightless for a moment. And then you sort of go down to the water. So it’s like you, you fly, you fly from the land into the sea, and now you’re in the sea and paddled out the person paddles, and I’m sitting out there all by myself. Just looking at that beautiful dime of sky like waiting from a wave firm. Next, right next to me the seal explodes up in the water and it’s looking around again, there was a shock and it could be put out there by yourself. You think of and then the seal disappears and maybe a shock is put in the seal and I’m looking around it makes it nice an explosion in two seals Bob out the water. What is yours? So now I’m like very I’m very nervous. I’m looking around in every Seagull or every splash I think it’s I think it’s a fin sort of chill, chilling now. And I’m like communing with nature and breathing and breathing that that’s sold in Burma thin. Comes out the water 18 feet from me. I nearly fainted, man. And then and then I see it’s adult. But it’s that, you know that feeling of being insignificant. I think is good because you know, we all think we say damn important and you know, we got it all down and but then you pal out and you just feel disconnected but connected. And you feel humble. You don’t feel humiliated. You just feel humble and humble. And it’s a good feeling to not be in control.

Michael Sarraille 39:22

I said the same thing about Everest when you said the disconnected, yet connected thing. That’s I think especially in this day and age with how inundated we are with technology that that’s even increasingly important. But when somebody asked me to describe the terrain because we did a documentary on Everest called Drop Zone Everest, I said I’ve never felt so insignificant are so small in a good way. And that is I mean that terrain was like nothing I’ve ever seen in

Shaun Tomson 39:52

1000 feet that is red.

Michael Sarraille 39:55

And we got to skydive in which was was cool.

Shaun Tomson 39:59

Like what What’s the what hot? What? What altitude did you land at?

Michael Sarraille 40:04

So they’re the highest drop zones in the world, which puts us in a group of about 20 people that have jumped in that, that terrain. And of course, people are like, Oh my god, he jumped on to Everest. I’m like, no, no one’s that dumb. You don’t jump on to Everest. No one’s done it yet. But we would exit on oxygen around 23 to 24,000 feet. And the drop zones were at anywhere from 17, five to 20,000. I didn’t get to do the one and 20,000 That was the more experienced crew. And they were they were more deserving than I was but you’re not experiencing much freefall time you’re exiting out of the helicopter and then pretty much going right to your, your, your BOC to pull your, your shoot. But it was the time under canopy just doing 360s was was some of the best moments of of my life, man.

Shaun Tomson 41:01

I mean, that view must be like mind boggling.

Michael Sarraille 41:04

Oh, it was great.

Shaun Tomson 41:04

VISTA, let’s be just like, beyond,

Michael Sarraille 41:08

I still have got to take I’ve got to take not only my wife and my family back, but there’s there’s some of my brothers again, who are better jumpers than I am that are more deserving, that that need that spiritual experience. We’re gonna get them back there. So we are going back to to Everest, amen. I’ve Shawn, I’ve got to come see you speak. And, you know, I know companies pay you to come out if there’s ever an opportunity for me to come see you speak man.

Shaun Tomson 41:34

I’d love to have you there Mike. And I’d love to, you know, stay more connected. Because you know, I love what you’re doing, you know, helping helping vets. Find the next phase find the next wave you know, when they’ve they’ve gone and risked their lives for, for the countries. And no matter what political persuasion, you are these that core of positive values, and morality and integrity and it’s it’s, it’s anything that I can do in any way that I can, can help your crew your tribe with with pleasure, because sometimes, you know, a completely different offer war perspective, can give people an interesting insight and perspective into their own lives. Because sometimes there’s something there that I’m not talking about that they had thought about, but maybe not really considered. And then the code works for everyone. The code doesn’t matter whether you’re, whether you’re a warrior, whether you’re an accountant, whether you’re whether you’re a student from a poor school in South Africa, the code has has great power, and I think it would have resonance for your tribe.

Michael Sarraille 42:42

You know, I call it warriors within the respective professions warrior has nothing to do with the profession of arms. It has everything to do with the mindset and how you live your life. So I want to close it out with this man. One. I, you know, I’m gonna swear bullshit. I hate just the chitter chatter bullshit where people say things and don’t fall through part of the code. I love how you talked about accountability, I will and then you hold yourself accountable accountable because you’ve made a pledge. So guys, and we’ll make sure the links are to these two books. The one is the code, the power of AI will and I’m picking it up. And then the next one is the best seller you had to surface code, the 12 simple lessons of writing through life.

Shaun Tomson 43:25

But there’s a brand new one out there’s a brand new school, the surfer and the sage. So that just came out a couple months ago. And the other surfer, the surf and the sages. It’s pretty cool.

Michael Sarraille 43:36

You got you got a copy there. Okay? What’s, what’s the Genesis a guide to surviving

Shaun Tomson 43:42

wild laughs waves. So this was written during COVID It’s to help people go from the darkness to the light 18 chapters. Because 18 in Hebrew, the word is high, it means life. It’s it’s a book about spirituality, about honor, about integrity, and about how to go from anxious to calm, how to go from despair to hope. So each chapter is a duality. So it’s a, I think you’ll agree, would you agree with the diggit?

Michael Sarraille 44:10

So I’m picking up three books. If you don’t mind. You know, the surface quo code, the 12 simple lessons for writing through life. I’d love to close it out. By giving just a few of those are all those find most important in what people can learn from them. And then guys, there’s no better way to close out this podcast, Shawn, I can’t thank you enough. So sir, the floor is yours, man.

Shaun Tomson 44:34

Thanks, Max. For anyone out there when you write your code and courage everyone 15 minutes 12 lines. Every line begins with our will keep your code. You spent the time you’ve made the commitment. Keep your code so I keep my card in my wallet. But cheaper right there. So I didn’t read my code every day. But let me tell you my words are there for me when I need them. So these These are these are some of my words, I will never turn my back on the ocean. It’s about passion, I will always paddle back out. Resilience, perseverance hope to I will take the drop with commitment, unequivocal courage, I will know that there will always be another wave optimism. I will realize that all surfers are joined by one ocean that we one tribe that we united, I will paddle around the impacts. And sometimes the best way is not to go straight ahead into the inferno, but around the around the side. I will never find a riptide that all of us no matter how strong, clever successful we are, you better be aware of those inexorable trends that run through society that you cannot fight like a riptide will watch out for other surfers after a big set. Watch out for your mates. Because one day, you’re going to be stuck down there and you’re going to be hoping one of your mates is going to come and rescue you. I will pass on my stoke to a non surfer. Just give back be a mentor. This one’s so funny. I will ride and not paddling to shore. So when you start something complete something and so many guys come up to me said Hey Shawn, why did you write that I was late for my wife, I was late for business deployment. Because you know, when you’re out there saving you can’t just like it’s time to go paddling you got to ride and I will catch a wave every day. Even in my mind. So that importance of connecting to something you love every day, even if it’s just like shutting your eyes and having a vicarious experience. And then the last one, which anyone who has done service for their country, like you have in your tribe has and a lot of you will listen to him. I will honor the sport of kings. Honor, your passion. Honor, your vocation, and living life with honor. And that’s it.

Michael Sarraille 47:03

I don’t think there’s any better way to end the podcast. And quite frankly, I don’t want to ruin it. Shawn, I can’t thank you enough for joining the Men’s Journal every day warrior podcast, man. I’m picking up those three books, brothers, and I’m so glad we cross paths. I mean, first off, you know, who didn’t watch North Shore if you grew up in the 80s 90s I’m sorry to bring it up. But you know, that’s that’s a comeback. Good story. Brother, you’ve put a lot of time into this craft, in how you mentor and impact lives. And for that. I am blessed for having crossed paths with you. And I’m going to put those 12 rules that you just read out as well as the links to these three books and I’m looking forward to it and please let me know when there’s an opportunity to come see you speak. I think

Shaun Tomson 47:50

what a pleasure man. You’re a great guy and your love and positive energy man and I love love you philosophy sir. I was honored to be on the show and I know paws are gonna crush the game brother.

Michael Sarraille 48:02

I brother be good. And for all of you. Thank you for joining us. We’ll see you next time.

Michael Sarraille 00:00

I’m joined by a legend Shawn Thompson. For those that are not with it, Shawn is probably one of the most 10 influential surfers of all time. I’m sure that ranking will move up. But this guy’s done it all from winning, winning the the world championship to best selling books to a phenomenal leadership speaker on life. He’s spoken to two companies, two groups. And the one I love he’s a activist. The you’re the first professional surfer to be on the board of directors for Surfrider Foundation. Is that right?

Shaun Tomson 00:48

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was actually the first first price if I remember the first one. I think I was the first member in fact.

Michael Sarraille 00:56

You know, maybe it was my time in, in California when I was growing up. But that was I mean, the Surfrider Foundation I remember given to that as a kid. You know, growing up in Santa Cruz, it seems like it’s I don’t want to say it’s lost steam is Surfrider, still as big as it is.

Shaun Tomson 01:11

Yeah, it’s still really it’s still really big. Actually, I was so honored. They gave me an award called the WaveMaker award a few months back for my for my contribution. But you know, one of the things that I think is amazing about Sif, Radha, and for anyone that’s listening, is they have a really simple mission. And it’s like a one line mission statement to preserve and protect the world’s waves, oceans and beaches. And, you know, that mission has resonated with millions and millions of people across the world. And I think for anyone that’s in business or thinking about getting in business, it’s good to have a simple mission that you can put on a t shirt. Like one line.

Michael Sarraille 01:48

Yeah, dude, I couldn’t agree with you more. You know, hey, I go with what I know, SEO for most of my career, and they wrote this beautiful ethos or code, whatever you want to call it. It reads beautifully. But it’s like, five paragraphs and nobody can memorize it. When things are simple, man, they resonate. But Shawn, I do want to go back because you have an interesting story. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s South Africans that are our professional surfers. Definitely still today. But, you know, you grew up surfing in South Africa, of course, your South African native. But then you had to step into why I believe when was your first trip to Hawaii?

Shaun Tomson 02:30

If so, my first trip to Hawaii was 1969. It was actually a Bar Mitzvah prison. My dad took me over there. My dad had loved her way his entire life. He actually got exposed to her way when he was about 23 years old. He had a very, he was very badly attacked by shock in South Africa, nearly killed him. He was a champion. So maybe he was maybe going to win an Olympic gold shock destroyed his career. And he he went to San Francisco to your old hometown, for hand surgery to the leading hand surgeon in the world. And then they sent him off to Hawaii to recuperate. And he met the Kahanamoku family, this legendary swimming family when he was staying on the beach at this hotel called the Royal Hawaiian. And he just fell in love with Hawaii and what Hawaii represented. And he passed the love of surfing and the love of Hawaii onto me. And then I went there at a very young age and I had pictures of Hawaii all over my bedroom. And you know, my dream was one day to try to be one of the best surfers in the world. And the way to do it was to go to Hawaii and ride what within the biggest waves in the world. And it all happened on the north shore in Hawaii.

Michael Sarraille 03:34

And he still was it like to step from the surf of South Africa to Hawaii? I mean, did you have to elevate your game?

Shaun Tomson 03:44

Absolutely. elevate your game. It’s like going from driving around in bumper cars to like f1 You know the difference in the speed the power. Also, you know, well in South Africa, like everyone knew me in, in a way I was like the bottom of the food chain. So you know, I had to like get respect from the locals and I had to learn how to ride these big terrifying waves, you know, waves that had pictures on my wall of waves that you’ve paddle out and you’d see someone that’s just been savaged on the coral reef. So there’s a lot of you know, there was a lot of fear and having to overcome that fear but, but at least had that, that passion and that drive to, to paddle out. And obviously, you know, winning was important to have that desire to win but I always wanted every wave to represent the best that I could serve it I had that. I had that mindset even from a young age, every wave, I sifted as hard as I could in a good way you know, not not in a purely athletic way but athletic combined with spirituality because surfers get very connected to the environment and you know you’re sitting out there you Waiting for wave and you chilling in these dogs, like even yesterday I was in the water is dolphins and seagulls and seals, it’s, you know, you really feel that you part of the broader universe. So yes, there’s the hardcore athleticism and the aggression and the power. But also there’s the softer side, the spiritual side, it’s nice to have that blend.

Michael Sarraille 05:20

Without a doubt, man you do, especially when you hit a dusk or dawn, those on the waves of theirs. Those are the most scenic times. And it’s just peaceful. You talked about earning the respect of the locals. I know that can be a pretty cutthroat environment was that was that a major obstacle to overcome or was welcomed pretty quick?

Shaun Tomson 05:43

You know, it was it was it was it was scary because there was a perception for a couple of years there that by coming over there and wanting to change it from a lifestyle into a sport to professionalize it, and kind of winning, winning all the comps. That in some ways that the Aussies which will match louder than the South Africans, you know, and we’re really sort of talking about their achievements like the beautiful Aziz do. And I love the Aussies, more than any other nation in the world. So it did create some antagonism and some resentment and there was beefs. And I was he’s, you know, got got punched out and had to kind of apologize. And then the following year, like, I sort of escaped it. Because I thought in my mind, I was such a good bloke. But the following year, I was interviewed in a magazine you remember Penthouse magazine. It was like a super racy like

Michael Sarraille 06:39

that. I don’t know no clue what you’re talking about. I

Shaun Tomson 06:43

said, the dude course, the course. In the magazine, and he mentioned, this group are real tough guys. They called the black shorts. And they had a perception that I’d written the article. And then I’d written about the kind of nefarious activities, so I got beefed. And then I had so many death threats I had to go in. I had to drive out to tropic lightning, which is in Hawaii, where it’s a it’s a vase, and I had to go into the local gun shop. And I remember going up to the guns to him and said, Hey, these guys, are they normally dudes, man, they want to kill me. I said, I need some protection. And I’m a tourist. I’m a tourist. I’m like 23 years old, a tourist. And he shows me the wall, where all the weapons are, you know, ar 15 or the M 16. look alikes. And then the big you know, 44 Magnum, three, five sevens. He said, But this is not for you. This is what you need. And he brings out a Remington pump action. And he says you can hold off an army with his buddy. Huge big shells, they look like rocket powered grenades. And I carry that around with me for a while until we had a big peace treaty. And we had a big meeting and 80 of the idea that this service in Hawaii came to support me and it was a misunderstanding and it was all resolved. And and then we all went on our peaceful way. But the early, early days in surfing, were certainly rough and ragged, and, you know, we had to get some slaps and punches. But that’s the way it was, you know, we copped it. We never left the island, we stood up for ourselves. And we explained that, to us, the Hawaiian surfers were the gods. And that Hawaii was the center of surfing and always would be in there was never any disrespect. Intentionally or unintentionally, but we but we understood you know, we understood that. And Hawaii has had a tough time it’s been colonized, it was illegally annexed by the United States. You know, you got to put yourself in the shoes of the Hawaiians and at that time, there was a whole was sort of the start of the rebirth of Hawaii and they called it the Renaissance. And it was wonderful to be a part of it but we got some legs

Michael Sarraille 09:00

the death threats that’s that’s insane. Did it seems a little unnecessary, but I guess it’s their home turf, and they felt slighted.

Shaun Tomson 09:09

Well, these these were exception the they were tough guys. They’re very, very tough guys. And, you know, it was very scary to get on the wrong side of them. But luckily it was all resolved. And And now, you know, now spot a history. We can laugh about it.

Michael Sarraille 09:26

Do they continue part of the Hawaiian surf history? Now?

Shaun Tomson 09:30

Yeah, you know, Hawaiian surfing history. And you know, I think that when we helped develop surfing, the Aussies and the South Africans and some of the young Hawaiian pros, it was good for everyone in surfing, you know, there was no one you know, young guys in Hawaii and all over the world. Australia, California, making a great living from being pro surfers and going surfing. They just had this incredible event in Hawaii called the Adi cow Invitational, which was in memory of one of the greatest same time, a guy called Adi cat and in fact, Adi cow came to South Africa to compete. Now when I grew up in South Africa, I was 16. I think when he came to South Africa was a segregated society. It was called the apartheid regime. Yes, were segregated and he came there. He was invited out there because he was one of the greatest surfers in the world. And he was denied entry at a hotel called the Malibu Hotel. How about that the Malibu hotel, and they denied entry, the manager to one of the greatest surfers in the world said, my dad, and I picked him up and he came and stayed with us. And we introduced him to this wonderful Australian family, the Holmes family. And, you know, he really, I think, fell in love, and never forgot the Aloha that that that some people in South Africa gave to him and the Australians gave to him. So Eddie was a peacekeeper, and a peacemaker in these conflicts that that we had, and unfortunately, we lost him in 1978. He was on a boat that was recreating a voyage between Hawaii and Tahiti. It was like an ancient craft called the Hokulea. And it started sinking. And in the middle of the night, he jumped on his red board and he pedaled out into the dark to look for help and found him and they never found his board. So it’s a tragic story, but a story of courage.

Michael Sarraille 11:22

That’s, that’s a that’s a great story that he was a huge, he was denied, but you said he fell in love with South Africa from a surf aspect. Some

Shaun Tomson 11:30

South South Africans, you know, obviously had a very bad experience there. But But he, you know, we reached out a hand to him and you know, we we were we were also traumatized by that experience. And in many ways, it sort of opened my eyes to sort of the injustice. That was a daily occurrence for the black community in South Africa. But he was a great guy, he was a cool, dude.

Michael Sarraille 11:56

So I know you, you are definitely known for creating a style of surf again, with the way you’d punch in and out of the two. But how much did you get into the Big Sur Friday? Was that a passion of yours? Or? Yeah, we were focused on the competitions.

Shaun Tomson 12:11

We were focused on, on on being the best at any size, you know, whether it was 25 feet, or whether it was was two feet in Hawaii, you know, there was no, there was no, all these big waves and Tahiti hadn’t been discovered these big, big waves in California, like Mavericks hadn’t been discovered Naza Ray hadn’t been discovered in Portugal, it was all about the North Shore. So all of us young guys, you know, we wanted to be the best no matter what the size, and no matter what competition was held, we’d go for it. So we were young and agri. But you know, we weren’t like, I wouldn’t say that we were committed big wave specialists. And that that’s all we did. Big wave was just a part of it. It was just like, there’s no difference between a 25 foot wave and a an eight foot wave. You know, we’d try to hit it as hard as you could, but we didn’t do one to the exclusion of the other was wasn’t like I was just going to focus on small waves are we just going to focus on big waves, we focus on everything and I try to be really versatile. I try to see if anything, and I tried to see if anything as as as good as I could. But I really liked the performance walls, you know, when Yeah, like there’s a place called sensitive beach when it was about 12 to 15 feet, he had a big wall. Waimea Bay was the biggest wave in the world at the time was like a huge drop, sort of just like a straight line drop. But since it was all about performance, big bottom turns big cars to Brad’s said it was it was a pretty technical wave. And that was more of I think, a true test of one skill set as opposed to just the courage the courage SP Mayer was like, five the courage and pedal over the years that pipeline to you know, pipeline is perhaps I would say the most dangerous wave in the world even today, even with all these other waves that have been discovered more people have died there than anywhere else. And that’s really the true test of a of a man or a woman you need paddle over that edge. And you look down at that black coral of death. I tell you what, that defines you.

Michael Sarraille 14:07

Did you love it?

Shaun Tomson 14:09

I loved it. He loved I won my first I think I became the youngest guy to win the Parkland Master’s. And it was a big thrill for me because my father was on the beach with me, you know, he and he he never won the gold medal because of the shark attack but to see his son and I was sort of pretty much an unknown guy then when it was like it was like obviously was a dream come true for me. But in some ways it might have it was like a dream come true for my dad. So that was that was pretty cool. But that that wave today, you ask any SURFER Like what’s the true test? What context would you like to win more than any other and they’ll say, you know, the path on masters which is going on right now actually, Kelly Slater, who’s 50 years old is competing, which is amazing. And last year he wanted and you know, he could become I mean he’s an icon and Amazing sofabed he could even become a great by winning it this year again, yes.

Michael Sarraille 15:03

In you’ve been a bit of a mentor to Kelly along the way.

Shaun Tomson 15:09

I think perhaps in some ways in my approach and in my philosophy, I think, you know, for all the all the acclaim that Kelly has had he, he still has he still humble, he’s still engaging. He still likes to be around people he likes to, to give back. And also I think he’s, he’s very thoughtful and multi dimensional. It’s not just about surfing, you know, I thought that was really important. I went back, you know, in back to university, I was studying at university when I was on the tour, I created my first company when I was 22 years old, trying to get involved in environmental movements. You know, I felt that when you do a number of things, it makes your single passion even stronger, and you’re even better at it. So he’s certainly done some amazing stuff outside of just surfing and he’s created this amazing wave machine, and he’s done some really, really cool things.

Michael Sarraille 16:07

I know we’ve got one here in Austin, but in a lot of ways, I know Kelly was the face of our generation. I mean, absolutely. I’m sure you love the air. You’re humble. You don’t like yeah, accolade. But, you know, it said with his rugged good looks, his eloquence and undeniable athleticism. Shawn Thompson very much became the face of surfing in the 70s 80s. Pre Kelly Slater. What you do, as you look back, man, on, on your contributions to the sport, what really comes to mind first?

Shaun Tomson 16:45

You know, maybe a couple of things, I think I developed a whole new approach to writing inside the tube, which is the best part of surfing, you ask any server like what’s the best moment it’s writing inside the tube? And so that spinning tunnel of water? When you think you can, I used to think that I could actually curve that wall to my will, you know, when you’re really focused in that state of flow. And you operating on instinct actually called My first apparel company instinct. Because, yes, you know, that was sort of essence of the of the tube, that expense, I think, you know, creating new lines running the tube, threading new lines, a pipeline as well, and, and then I think I bought to a higher level of professionalism, to surfing and helped and helped that it thrive and prosper and give back. And then I think my environmental consciousness is, you know, I think that was a contribution. And, and I think a lot of surfers went well, you know, we need to be more environmentally conscious, we need to get back, we need to, you know, we need to get back to the ocean. And then, you know, the mentoring, which I’ve loved throughout my career, I sponsored two Australians to wildtype was a guy called Tom Carroll to two world titles guy called Mark and Lynch to one and, you know, I like to think that, that helped them and had an impact on their career, and, in more recent times, managed to help hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of people. So it’s a wonderful extension of, you know, what I did when I was a young, a young guy, and sort of doing it on a different and bigger scale. You know, I went back to, I gotta, I gotta tell you this, I went back to grad school at university a number of years ago, back, I think I was the oldest dude there. And I wanted to study, influence and inspiration. So that’s what leadership is the art and science of leadership. And, you know, when I thought back to my athletic career, and I look at, what is an athlete really do, what that what does an athlete really do these two fundamental responsibilities. One is to win. And the other one that is even more important is to inspire. And that’s what athletes do. And it’s it’s wonderful to have gone and studied this concept of influence and inspiration in depth and see the incredible power that athletes have, not just inspire and influence but to transform to transform people, through the obviously through the experts on the field, but also the experts of the field.

Michael Sarraille 19:22

That is probably the best definition I’ve ever heard. You know, Shawn, the one thing we have in common, but I assure you, you are much better than I is, you know, I have a leadership development company. And I speak to companies as well. But, you know, I often say I use the football analogy. It doesn’t matter how inspiring a coach is or what type of great culture he may build. If he’s not putting wins on the board, he’s not going to be in that seat very long. So the winning part has I mean, everyone wants to be a part of a winning culture. And so you can’t have one with the without the other but the mentorship piece, you know, you you took the sport to a level and then You know, you hear it with same with athletes in any any profession 60s 70s 80s 90s You know, they took the sport to another level and now you watch this generation taking it further. Does that hurt your ego whatsoever? Or do you feel like nope, I’ve done my job. We’ve mentored them. And now they’re taking the sport to a level we I love that couldn’t comprehend.

Shaun Tomson 20:17

You know, I love the development. And I take great pride in saying that I put a little brick on the wall of circumciser for me. You know, my records were broken many years ago, and I go, that’s just part of the that’s part of the development of the sport, you know, you have to an engineer, sometimes an athlete will find the app and, and my door’s always open to athletes, and my advice is always it’s, it’s caring, and it’s free. I always said athletes, you’ve got a problem for me, I haven’t. I mean, this young Hawaiian athlete a few years back, great kid, his name was Zeke law, he looks like a warrior. He couldn’t get out of 25th place could not get out of 25th place. So I contacted him. And I said, Hey, Zeke, you know, I’m Shawn Thompson, he I am stick to connect with me, I said, Listen, I’ve got a super cool method that I use with hundreds of 1000s of people. And I’d love you to try it. And you know, maybe it can give you a little breakthrough. Because athletics, it’s about millimeters, you know what I mean? The difference between success and failure is a millimeter. And both in your physical makeup and also your mental makeup. And it just one little millimeter can mean the difference between success and failure. So so this is, this is the thing, this is the way of the warrior. So it’s cool that, you know, you’ve got your everyday warrior. And I said, I just want to read and this is the way of the warrior. The code, this is your values. This is your power, this is your passion. This is your purpose, write 12 lines, every line beginning with I will write it in 15 minutes. And commit to this, I will What I will, and he writes these 12 lines, he sends it to me, I promise you, the next week, he flies to South Africa. So I want a big event in South Africa, when I was 17 years old, I won it six times in a row was called the Gunston 500. It’s still going, he gets a third, like you say goes from 25th to third. And a month later gets a first in a big event in Portugal and qualifies for the professional tour at the end of that year. So I say to people that this code process that is to be shared in the world, it’s open source code. It might help you, it might not help you. But what’s the risk? The risk is 15 minutes, pick up a pen, write 12 lines, every line begins with how well and I think over a million a million people have done this coprocessor due to the biggest companies in the world. I do it with. I did it with a group of soldiers and Israel PTSD survivors. I’ve done it with prisoners, inmates. I’ve done it with rehab clinics, schools, universities and massive corporations, everyone writes a code baby 12 lines, every line beginning with our well and you know, you know, you exhale, you know how important it is to have that foundation of values, to have the foundation of commitment to have at your heart purpose. What am I going to do? What am I about? What’s my life? What’s the meaning of my life? I will have faith. I will be better today than I was whatever people write amazing stuff. You cannot believe what they wrote back. Sometimes I cry when I read what they write. Yeah. And they stand up. You know what they do? When I do these events, people stand up. And they read their code out loud and proud. They’re like a warrior. They read it and half of the audience will start crying when they hear what the team members have written. It is sir. It is so wonderful. Think I’ve got one of the best jobs in the world right now.

Michael Sarraille 24:00

We so you know you have a story to tell in a very unique story, a world class story. And I heard it recently. I can’t I can’t remember the source. They said it is a shame to not share your story, which is to say to share all the knowledge you’ve accumulated. And usually a lot of that knowledge comes from failure trials and tribulations. And if you don’t pass that to the next generation, you’re actually doing a disservice to humanity. Shawn, this isn’t until for everyone listening. Shawn wrote a best seller. And this is what I love. He was a team. That number one Amazon team best seller called the code the power of AI will Shawn This is why I love it because for my buddies I write with my buddies. I I’m very team oriented. Everything I’ve done is team oriented. We just went and jumped the seven continents. skydive in six days. No one’s ever done this. They said it couldn’t be done. So you know found none of my buddies, but we talk about how often companies have like their corporate values on the wall. And I often when I speak to companies, I’m like, I haven’t spoke because I’ve been gone for 45 days on this expedition, but honor, integrity, communication in service. And I asked people, I’m like, What company had those values up on the wall, and some people will get it right away, I said, Hey, one of their major headquarters was in Houston. And they’ll finally yell out and run. And I’m like, Yeah, you know, what, guys? Every corporation has values on the wall. But how many companies do you see that actually have a code? Like, if you didn’t know it, Johnson and Johnson is one of the few companies that if you walk into their headquarters, it’s actually etched on the wall. Stone. But so you know what, go ahead.

Shaun Tomson 25:48

What you say is amazing, you know, I, when I went back and went back to grad school and studied leadership, I actually got a hold of the Enron book on values, it was about half an inch thick. All this shit was inside this book. So So you know, say, you know, what I do with, with, with companies, and and it’s super cool. So now. So you’ve got a big crew, and everyone reads the code, and I say to people, okay, I want one line, from your code, that is the most resonant line to you. And send it to me, they text it to me, and it comes up, comes up on my PowerPoint, and you know, whatever that line might be, like, I will live a life of integrity, I will have faith, I will be a mentor. But it’s about power. And it’s about commitment. And it’s about I will and when you state that in front of people, you know, you have that, you know you in the military, you have that accountability here, and then what to do afterwards, then us, I have an artist who puts it together, and he makes a big poster. And there’s a one line from each team member. And that goes whether it’s to company HQ, or goes to the sales office. So now, like you say, when you walk into a company, and you see on integrity, words, let me tell you, words don’t have the power. But when you put our will in front of them. It creates urgency, it creates action, and it creates commitment. And you know what it is? It’s a bloody promise, you’ve made a promise, and you know, you’ve made the promise to to yourself, so you better uphold it, otherwise, you’ll be a BLOODY WANKER. So everyone, you know, when you see these commitments, and I go into the companies, and I see them up on the walls, and I go, that’s pretty cool. You know what I mean? That you’re not going to check them out every day, but maybe the one day when you down, and things are going sideways, and you look there, and you see, you see one of your words from your code, like I will always pedal back out or, or, you know, whatever it whatever it might be, it can give you that little extra millimeter.

Michael Sarraille 27:58

So, you know, again, we talked about Enron, those are espoused values, what we aspire to be, but I love this concept of a code. There’s a book called The code of a warrior by a professor at the Naval Academy, and I remember reading it as a young Marine before he became a seal. And I don’t know why it resonated with me in my 40s, as much as it did in my 20s. But, you know, in a lot of ways, I didn’t realize I was living by a code, I couldn’t articulate it. But have you ever I’ve got to ask you Have you ever heard the prayer have to come so I think it’s one of the best codes.

Shaun Tomson 28:30

No, I don’t think maybe I have so I

Michael Sarraille 28:33

it’s something I used to say with my son before he went to bed. And it’s it’s been a little while but but but bear with me. Live your life so that the fear of death may never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion, respect others and their views and demand that they respect yours. Love Your Life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. when your time comes to die be not like those whose hearts are filled with a fear of death. So they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Singer death song in die like a hero going home. I probably missed that

Shaun Tomson 29:11

amazing. Well done there, Mike. That is awesome.

Michael Sarraille 29:15

It would be there was a time where my son could say it with being of course at the age of five and he had helped him but he knew it pretty pretty. routinely. He doesn’t know now because we stopped but when you have something like that you live your life a little bit differently. It also goes to the to habits of repeating those codes until it becomes instinctual. It’s something it’s etched into your mind. Why have you chosen and I know you’re still still active in the sport. You know, you’ve written these books on leadership. Is this part of your legacy you’re leaving behind man? Is it is this is this the next chapter of your life is to impact as many lives through through your leadership. training, you didn’t surfing,

Shaun Tomson 30:02

without a doubt. I mean, I bet a tragedy led me to this, I lost my beautiful 15 and a half year old son to a poor choice. In 2006, he played a dangerous game that he heard about at school called the choking game, but it was terrible. And I just went down a different path after that. And I could see that, you know, young people, not just young people, people are people just make bad decisions all the time. And if there’s a way that I in my own way can help people make a better decision, and live a better life by using my method, which I’ve found, really helps people discover hope and activate purpose, it gives me so much love back in so much satisfaction and, and makes you know, what happened to my beautiful son. Much more. I think I speak about my son a lot when I when I when I do my presentations, and how important it is to, if you have a loss and you suffer is you’ve got to find your new purpose, you got to find a renewed purpose. And for me, my renewed purpose was, well, maybe I’ll go out and speak to people and give them two things. I give them a perspective and tell them about my experiences through some stories. And then I show them how to activate the code method. And they share it and they do it together and just create this wave of optimism, optimism and hope. And when I, when I do my presentations, it’s really interesting because they’re quite interactive. And even if I’m doing a live stream, and it’s to five or 6000 people, I ask people right at the end, after they’ve written their codes and shared them. So what are you going to take home with you send me one word, send me one word that you’re going to take home with you What do you think that word is mine.

Michael Sarraille 32:07

You inspire

Shaun Tomson 32:10

that that’s a common word. But the most common word is hope, which is very related to inspire. And, you know, if that’s my mission in life now, and that’s the ultimate objective. It’s a good mission. It’s a good path to help people find out. That’s cool.

Michael Sarraille 32:31

Shawn, I wasn’t gonna bring up Matthew. And in a lot of people just don’t like to talk about loss. It requires what I consider to be the most masculine trait and that’s vulnerability. And again, you know, you’re either the most the most lethal warriors I knew I talked about them and how vulnerable they were not victims, but they allowed themselves to be vulnerable. You said you started to go down a bad path after Matthew.

Shaun Tomson 33:00

Well, you know, I was just despair despondency. No direction. It was very luck, for instance, you know, I love surfing so much. And I was so stoked. And after loss, Matthew, my stoke had gone out, you know, the fire. My Fire gone out. So it was, it was tough. Time. And then and then how about this, I had this friend who kept finding me I made sure I want to take you surfing, you want to go surfing again, you’ve got to go surfing again. After a couple of months. It takes me surfing, he said, Shawn, I’m gonna take you to a place you’ve never surfed before. So we walked down. And I’m back in the homeland of South Africa, because my son was at my old private school and they will, they will uniforms and they will school tires. And he played this game called the choking game with the school tire. I mean, all the kids were playing it as dreadful. I don’t remember. So it takes me to this place. And we walked down the steps and it’s beautiful. That sun is just starting to rise and it’s on the east coast. So the sun’s like, boiling up through the ocean. It’s beautiful since a beautiful thing to see. And I just felt this sort of sense of like a new day like renewal and dived into the water with my board, and a paddled out and I was crying, you know. And then the waves are just washing into me as I was paddling out. They were just like washing my tears away. It was an amazing sensation to be crying and then the waves of washing them away. It’s like the sea is helping me. And then I paddled out. And I could feel Matthew was with me, man. Yeah. And then I swung round and a quarter wave. And I read it. And I started feeling bad and pedaled back out and I read another wave. And then I pedaled up to my mate. And I said, Hey, What’s the name of this wave? Because you know, every sipping break has a name. She said, It’s called Sunrise. Sunrise. How about that? I couldn’t believe it, I went, Wow. This is something at work here, deep faith and connectivity to Matthew connectivity to nature and connectivity back to my surfing and was like, my stick was reluctant. And then I went down a path, I had a book at the printer, my first book and, and I told him to keep it on hold, I didn’t want to publish it. And then a new now I’ve got to publish this book, because this books in memory of Matthew and the book was called surface code. And it was about the first 12 lines I had written and, and it turned into this, this book turned into this way to honor my beautiful son’s life and to help me find a new path. And that’s what I did. And that’s what I’ve been doing. Ever since you know, I’ve been pushing forward and and doing what has has become a passion for me. I love to speak to people and share my perspective and share my code.

Michael Sarraille 36:16

What is it about nature? Because see, you know, I know you come from a Judaism, Jewish background, you know, I came from a very devoutly Roman Catholic family. But in the wake of war and losing brothers, I didn’t find renewal through religion. And you’ve often heard the phrase nature’s next to to godliness. A trip to Mount Everest, for me, just was it was time to put down my grief. The survivor’s guilt for my brothers in actually honor their life by living to to do more to be more. What is it about nature, in your opinion, you talk about spirituality, and I believe in three pillars, you know, the physical, the mental and the spiritual. What is it about nature? That is so spiritual? to I think for some, it’s, yeah, I’m a mountain man. It’s, it’s,

Shaun Tomson 37:11

you know. For me, it’s that feeling of humility, that feeling of disconnection and connection. So like yesterday, I go surfing, walk down the beach. And there’s a person in the water, one person and me and I walk down the beach. And I jump into the woods. And as I jump into the water is a moment that every surfer experiences that you sort of weightless for a moment. And then you sort of go down to the water. So it’s like you, you fly, you fly from the land into the sea, and now you’re in the sea and paddled out the person paddles, and I’m sitting out there all by myself. Just looking at that beautiful dime of sky like waiting from a wave firm. Next, right next to me the seal explodes up in the water and it’s looking around again, there was a shock and it could be put out there by yourself. You think of and then the seal disappears and maybe a shock is put in the seal and I’m looking around it makes it nice an explosion in two seals Bob out the water. What is yours? So now I’m like very I’m very nervous. I’m looking around in every Seagull or every splash I think it’s I think it’s a fin sort of chill, chilling now. And I’m like communing with nature and breathing and breathing that that’s sold in Burma thin. Comes out the water 18 feet from me. I nearly fainted, man. And then and then I see it’s adult. But it’s that, you know that feeling of being insignificant. I think is good because you know, we all think we say damn important and you know, we got it all down and but then you pal out and you just feel disconnected but connected. And you feel humble. You don’t feel humiliated. You just feel humble and humble. And it’s a good feeling to not be in control.

Michael Sarraille 39:22

I said the same thing about Everest when you said the disconnected, yet connected thing. That’s I think especially in this day and age with how inundated we are with technology that that’s even increasingly important. But when somebody asked me to describe the terrain because we did a documentary on Everest called Drop Zone Everest, I said I’ve never felt so insignificant are so small in a good way. And that is I mean that terrain was like nothing I’ve ever seen in

Shaun Tomson 39:52

1000 feet that is red.

Michael Sarraille 39:55

And we got to skydive in which was was cool.

Shaun Tomson 39:59

Like what What’s the what hot? What? What altitude did you land at?

Michael Sarraille 40:04

So they’re the highest drop zones in the world, which puts us in a group of about 20 people that have jumped in that, that terrain. And of course, people are like, Oh my god, he jumped on to Everest. I’m like, no, no one’s that dumb. You don’t jump on to Everest. No one’s done it yet. But we would exit on oxygen around 23 to 24,000 feet. And the drop zones were at anywhere from 17, five to 20,000. I didn’t get to do the one and 20,000 That was the more experienced crew. And they were they were more deserving than I was but you’re not experiencing much freefall time you’re exiting out of the helicopter and then pretty much going right to your, your, your BOC to pull your, your shoot. But it was the time under canopy just doing 360s was was some of the best moments of of my life, man.

Shaun Tomson 41:01

I mean, that view must be like mind boggling.

Michael Sarraille 41:04

Oh, it was great.

Shaun Tomson 41:04

VISTA, let’s be just like, beyond,

Michael Sarraille 41:08

I still have got to take I’ve got to take not only my wife and my family back, but there’s there’s some of my brothers again, who are better jumpers than I am that are more deserving, that that need that spiritual experience. We’re gonna get them back there. So we are going back to to Everest, amen. I’ve Shawn, I’ve got to come see you speak. And, you know, I know companies pay you to come out if there’s ever an opportunity for me to come see you speak man.

Shaun Tomson 41:34

I’d love to have you there Mike. And I’d love to, you know, stay more connected. Because you know, I love what you’re doing, you know, helping helping vets. Find the next phase find the next wave you know, when they’ve they’ve gone and risked their lives for, for the countries. And no matter what political persuasion, you are these that core of positive values, and morality and integrity and it’s it’s, it’s anything that I can do in any way that I can, can help your crew your tribe with with pleasure, because sometimes, you know, a completely different offer war perspective, can give people an interesting insight and perspective into their own lives. Because sometimes there’s something there that I’m not talking about that they had thought about, but maybe not really considered. And then the code works for everyone. The code doesn’t matter whether you’re, whether you’re a warrior, whether you’re an accountant, whether you’re whether you’re a student from a poor school in South Africa, the code has has great power, and I think it would have resonance for your tribe.

Michael Sarraille 42:42

You know, I call it warriors within the respective professions warrior has nothing to do with the profession of arms. It has everything to do with the mindset and how you live your life. So I want to close it out with this man. One. I, you know, I’m gonna swear bullshit. I hate just the chitter chatter bullshit where people say things and don’t fall through part of the code. I love how you talked about accountability, I will and then you hold yourself accountable accountable because you’ve made a pledge. So guys, and we’ll make sure the links are to these two books. The one is the code, the power of AI will and I’m picking it up. And then the next one is the best seller you had to surface code, the 12 simple lessons of writing through life.

Shaun Tomson 43:25

But there’s a brand new one out there’s a brand new school, the surfer and the sage. So that just came out a couple months ago. And the other surfer, the surf and the sages. It’s pretty cool.

Michael Sarraille 43:36

You got you got a copy there. Okay? What’s, what’s the Genesis a guide to surviving

Shaun Tomson 43:42

wild laughs waves. So this was written during COVID It’s to help people go from the darkness to the light 18 chapters. Because 18 in Hebrew, the word is high, it means life. It’s it’s a book about spirituality, about honor, about integrity, and about how to go from anxious to calm, how to go from despair to hope. So each chapter is a duality. So it’s a, I think you’ll agree, would you agree with the diggit?

Michael Sarraille 44:10

So I’m picking up three books. If you don’t mind. You know, the surface quo code, the 12 simple lessons for writing through life. I’d love to close it out. By giving just a few of those are all those find most important in what people can learn from them. And then guys, there’s no better way to close out this podcast, Shawn, I can’t thank you enough. So sir, the floor is yours, man.

Shaun Tomson 44:34

Thanks, Max. For anyone out there when you write your code and courage everyone 15 minutes 12 lines. Every line begins with our will keep your code. You spent the time you’ve made the commitment. Keep your code so I keep my card in my wallet. But cheaper right there. So I didn’t read my code every day. But let me tell you my words are there for me when I need them. So these These are these are some of my words, I will never turn my back on the ocean. It’s about passion, I will always paddle back out. Resilience, perseverance hope to I will take the drop with commitment, unequivocal courage, I will know that there will always be another wave optimism. I will realize that all surfers are joined by one ocean that we one tribe that we united, I will paddle around the impacts. And sometimes the best way is not to go straight ahead into the inferno, but around the around the side. I will never find a riptide that all of us no matter how strong, clever successful we are, you better be aware of those inexorable trends that run through society that you cannot fight like a riptide will watch out for other surfers after a big set. Watch out for your mates. Because one day, you’re going to be stuck down there and you’re going to be hoping one of your mates is going to come and rescue you. I will pass on my stoke to a non surfer. Just give back be a mentor. This one’s so funny. I will ride and not paddling to shore. So when you start something complete something and so many guys come up to me said Hey Shawn, why did you write that I was late for my wife, I was late for business deployment. Because you know, when you’re out there saving you can’t just like it’s time to go paddling you got to ride and I will catch a wave every day. Even in my mind. So that importance of connecting to something you love every day, even if it’s just like shutting your eyes and having a vicarious experience. And then the last one, which anyone who has done service for their country, like you have in your tribe has and a lot of you will listen to him. I will honor the sport of kings. Honor, your passion. Honor, your vocation, and living life with honor. And that’s it.

Michael Sarraille 47:03

I don’t think there’s any better way to end the podcast. And quite frankly, I don’t want to ruin it. Shawn, I can’t thank you enough for joining the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast, man. I’m picking up those three books, brothers, and I’m so glad we cross paths. I mean, first off, you know, who didn’t watch North Shore if you grew up in the 80s 90s I’m sorry to bring it up. But you know, that’s that’s a comeback. Good story. Brother, you’ve put a lot of time into this craft, in how you mentor and impact lives. And for that. I am blessed for having crossed paths with you. And I’m going to put those 12 rules that you just read out as well as the links to these three books and I’m looking forward to it and please let me know when there’s an opportunity to come see you speak. I think

Shaun Tomson 47:50

What a pleasure man. You’re a great guy and your love and positive energy man and I love your philosophy. I was honored to be on the show and I know paws are gonna crush the game brother.

Michael Sarraille 48:02

Be good. And for all of you. Thank you for joining us. We’ll see you next time.